Selected Transcripts of the Archer Independent Inquiry
Thursday, 24th May 2007
EVIDENCE OF GARY KELLY
LORD ARCHER OF SANDWELL: How would you prefer to do this? Would you prefer to read it or -- not necessarily the whole of it, but would it be better for me to ask questions?
MR KELLY: I'm quite happy for you to ask the questions.
LORD ARCHER OF SANDWELL: You are 43 now?
MR KELLY: Yes, I am. I've got to the stage where I've got to get reading glasses.
LORD ARCHER OF SANDWELL: Yes, that happens to all of us, I fear. Your problem was leukemia?
MR KELLY: That's correct, yes.
LORD ARCHER OF SANDWELL: And you were diagnosed with that in 1985?
MR KELLY: Correct, yes.
LORD ARCHER OF SANDWELL: I think it was --
MR KELLY: I had problems with my gums. They thought I had gingivitis, or my dentist sent me up to the dental hospital and they did some treatment and it didn't work and eventually one of the consultants came along and asked to do a blood test to test for anything else.
LORD ARCHER OF SANDWELL: Yes. I think after one course of treatment, things were getting better?
MR KELLY: Yes, I was told I was in remission after one course. I then went along -- or after a couple of courses of chemotherapy -- and during that process I was told that I would have to have a bone marrow transplant, which meant my parents and my sister had tests and we found out that my sister was compatible. So we went along, and went through the process of having radiation treatment in order to kill my bone marrow, and then have some marrow from my sister.
LORD ARCHER OF SANDWELL: And the transplant.
MR KELLY: The transplant.
LORD ARCHER OF SANDWELL: Were you receiving blood from the treatment?
MR KELLY: I received blood all the way through, probably something called chemotherapy, or -- well, I think it's better now but at that point in time it was known as Domestos. It killed everything, so they had to give me blood --
LORD ARCHER OF SANDWELL: To replace what you'd lost?
MR KELLY: -- to replace what I'd lost.
LORD ARCHER OF SANDWELL: In what form were you receiving it at that time. Was it cryoprecipitate or --
MR KELLY: No, it was actually, it was a mixture of whole blood, in the bag --
LORD ARCHER OF SANDWELL: We're talking about 1985 or so, aren't we?
MR KELLY: Yes.
LORD ARCHER OF SANDWELL: Yes, I see. Then, when you went home, you received further blood transfusions.
MR KELLY: Well, I was transferred from Gartnavel General Hospital to Royal Infirmary in Glasgow, to the bone marrow unit where I received the bone marrow transplant, group two transplants, and that's where I also received the contaminated blood which was platelets.
LORD ARCHER OF SANDWELL: Yes, platelets. And the blood actually, I gather, seemed to be improving your general health?
MR KELLY: Eventually, yes, it did. As far as I am aware what happened when I actually received the contaminated platelets was around he same time as I had the first bone marrow transplant, but the blood levels were not coming up as well as what they should have, and that's when they decided to give me a second bone marrow transplant, because they couldn't figure out why it wasn't coming up on my count, and then they found out later, as I say in my evidence, that I had actually received contaminated blood.
LORD ARCHER OF SANDWELL: How long after you first received the bone marrow transplants was this?
MR KELLY: The bone marrow transplant was around about Easter of 1986.
LORD ARCHER OF SANDWELL: Eighty-seven?
MR KELLY: Eighty-six. And then after -- well, the bone marrow treatment, and what happened was I went along to the clinic and the consultant said to me, you know, "Look here, old man" you know, basically told me that I'd received infected blood, and what had happened was that the person that had donated the blood was negative, but then came back three months later and found to be positive. So what they did then was the blood transfusion service backtracked to find out who got the blood. It was myself and I believe it was some others as well that also got infected from the same batch.
LORD ARCHER OF SANDWELL: Yes, saying that they found out too late, after they had taken the blood?
MR KELLY: Yes, the tests then, and I believe it's still the same test today, doesn't pick up the antigen – it doesn't pick up when the blood is -- the window period, and as far as I know, it is the same tests they are doing today.
LORD ARCHER OF SANDWELL: Did you have any symptoms from the infection, initially?
MR KELLY: Well yeah, I did. I had some sweats and other problems, but they put it down to the bone marrow transplant, because I got a number of infections during that period as well.
LORD ARCHER OF SANDWELL: Yes, I see, but I was only when he told you about the infected blood that you realised what was really causing it?
MR KELLY: Yes.
MR MEHAN: And that was HIV was it?
MR KELLY: Yes, it was HIV.
MS WILLETT: And you say the tests are still the same today?
MR KELLY: As far as I am aware. What they do is -- well, after what happened to myself they brought in the heat treatment, and something -- obviously not the whole blood but the thing was, because I had no immune system, the standard process in the Walton Unit was old blood -- well, platelets now -- were heat treated and irradiated, and it still got through. So we don't know why.
LORD ARCHER OF SANDWELL: It somehow got through --
MR KELLY: It still got through the heat treatment.
LORD ARCHER OF SANDWELL: I think there was a payout by the Government to people suffering from haemophilia who contracted infected blood but not to people like you, who got leukemia or some other --
MR KELLY: No, official Government line was basically --
LORD ARCHER OF SANDWELL: Are we talking about Macfarlane here?
MR KELLY: No. I'm talking about the Eileen Trust, which is the sister trust.
LORD ARCHER OF SANDWELL: Oh, the Eileen Trust, yes.
MR KELLY: What the Government said at the time, Virginia Bottomley and others said, that if the haemophiliacs hadn't been given the blood they would have died, and that was the difference between us and the haemophiliacs, and our arguments was obviously well if myself and others hadn't been given the blood we probably would have died as well because it was part of our treatment. Eventually they did -- well before that as I said earlier in the evidence that was handed in, that we had a legal case which basically said it wasn't in the public interest for us to get information that we needed, which was quite interesting.
LORD ARCHER OF SANDWELL: That was in a court session was it?
MR KELLY: Yes, in Edinburgh, Lord Morrison, although I believe he was quite sympathetic to the case but the public interest, indemnity, sort of thing. So that's why we carried out the campaign, and The Observer newspaper, which I think I have submitted the articles, and eventually we got an MP on board to help us, and eventually they decided to pay out.
LORD ARCHER OF SANDWELL: Yes, I see.
MS WILLETT: And how much was that?
MR KELLY: I received £43,500 but again what they did was, they lumped both the payments that they had made to haemophiliacs,they got two payments, £20,000 and then --
LORD ARCHER OF SANDWELL: £25,000 at a later stage.
MR KELLY: Well what they did was, with us they just amalgamated both.
LORD ARCHER OF SANDWELL: So you got £45,000, in effect?
MR KELLY: I got £43,500. It depended whether you were married, whether you are single, whether you have children or whatever. So it varied from --
LORD ARCHER OF SANDWELL: Well we'll probably have some evidence on that later.
MR KELLY: If you were an infant, you got £41,500, single adult, £43,500. Married adult without dependent children, £52,000, and if you had children you get £80,500. Then there was also payments made to infected spouses or children, which varies from £21,500 to £23,500.
LORD ARCHER OF SANDWELL: Yes, thank you.
MS WILLETT: To what extent did the money you received compensate you for what you lost or had --
MR KELLY: The ex gratia payment? It wasn't compensation, you have to be careful here.
MS WILLETT: Sorry, yes, you're quite right.
MR KELLY: They keep telling us... No basically I was told when I received it "go and enjoy yourself because you have got three or four years to live" and that's what I did. The amount of money that it got me at that point in time, there was no -- I couldn't buy a house or a flat, because there wasn't enough.
LORD ARCHER OF SANDWELL: And you couldn't get a mortgage?
MR KELLY: No. So, you know, it didn't really do a lot for me but I didn't have a choice of whether to take it or not. I couldn't go back to court because I had signed the waiver, so there wasn't really a lot.
LORD ARCHER OF SANDWELL: Can I ask you a little now about the effect of the condition on you, personally?
MR KELLY: Yes, well over the years I've never actually had an HIV related illness. My main problems are the side effects of the treatment. I was on AZT at one point, and it damaged my mitochondrials in my legs, the cells, they never recovered properly. My pancreas is damaged, so much so that, as you have probably seen in the articles in The Observer, at one point I was 22 stone and because my pancreas was damaged I lost all that weight and I'm now 12.5 stone, and in some ways I was lucky that I had the weight to lose, otherwise, I wouldn't be here today. I then had to supplement or medication when I eat to stop me from malabsorbing and I'm still taking antibiotics at the moment. I was on one drug called Kaletra three years ago, which caused me to have a heart attack because it puts up the cholesterol, then about two months ago I had a second heart attack.
LORD ARCHER OF SANDWELL: So you have had two heart attacks?
MR KELLY: I've had two heart attacks and at the moment I'm on a waiting list to find out whether I can get angioplasty or not. I've got to get a scan first to see if my heart's in any sort of condition that it can be done.
LORD ARCHER OF SANDWELL: What about the effect on your mind, your mentality?
MR KELLY: My mentality? Well, for years I've been putting on a face. People say to you, "How are you?" I say, "I'm fine", but really I'm not. You know, I've had some counselling over the years, and recently, after my heart attack, and also sort of doing -- putting evidence of things together, my psychologist at Brownley, who has known me for quite number of years, decided to have a chat with me and decided that I had clinical depression and put me on Prozac so I have to see how that goes.
LORD ARCHER OF SANDWELL: A bit early to decide what is happening about that?
MR KELLY: Yes, but also at the moment I'm doing a law degree, which I've been enjoying, but when it comes to the exams and things my confidence isn't as great as it should be. And it's -- it's also affects your confidence like, you know, if you meet a woman or whatever, it's quite hard because you have also got to -- given the current state of the law, you have got to -- well I was going to say expose but that's probably the wrong word, you have got to tell them that you're HIV positive. Quite a lot of times it's off-putting, so they just -- or you don't have a lot of relationships in that sense.
LORD ARCHER OF SANDWELL: Is there anything else you would like to tell us?
MR KELLY: Yeah, I think Andrew and others have already made reference to countries, but -- well a couple of things I wanted to add was -- and I sent a copy of it -- I came across an article. One of the things people have been asking me for years because the tests couldn't pick up the virus, you know, what more could the government have done? My argument was at that point in time, and I know this as a fact from talking to people who were in the high-risk groups at that period in Scotland and I think down here, I think they gave a form for people to volunteer not to give blood, if they are in a high-risk group, ie, gay men, drug users or whatever. As we all know people lie. It happens. What was happening then was that because there was only one place that you could actually get tested for HIV, and that was at the blood transfusion service, people were using it to be tested, and I've got an article here which I've submit ed to Vijay, dated 2nd March 1992 from The Scotsman newspaper which states -- that was them then just bringing in the tests in other centres for people to go to. Why did it take so long? I'd really like to know why it took so long because as you know the primary test was in December 1985, and that's seven years it took them to do that. So that put our blood supply at risk, the Government, by doing that.
LORD ARCHER OF SANDWELL: I follow the question. It's a question which is in our mind too.
MR KELLY: I have also been asked to mention the fact – and I've said in my evidence but I haven't covered it – is the fact that in the Eileen Trust we have been told by the official Government or the Department Of Health, that there was 400 people at that point in time who had been given infected blood. Less -- Peter Stevens, who is giving evidence next month, will be able to go into more detail -- but less than 100 people actually claimed the ex gratia payments and the majority of them had already died, so it was like their families. At the moment, the way it stands there are less than 20 of us in the Eileen Trust. Seven or eight of them have came on board over the last three or four years.
LORD ARCHER OF SANDWELL: The others have already died, have they?
MR KELLY: Yes. We don't know about the 300. We don't know what the figures are of how many have died, but there are still people coming forward today who claim an ex gratia payment because they've just recently been diagnosed. There's one friend of mine who is also from Scotland Trisha, she had a baby down here in London. The day after the baby was born they found out she had septicaemia. She was given nine units of blood. A few months later, it was in the press that someone had been given infected blood, a number of people that received it in London and Wales. And she went back to her consultant and said, "I'd like to get tested" and he said, "Don't be silly, it's impossible." Trisha has had some very serious problems including some brain damage, and she was diagnosed four years ago and they managed to trace it back.
LORD ARCHER OF SANDWELL: And they said that was the source of it?
MR KELLY: That was the source of it, and there was one case going through just now from the Department Of Health, and there's obviously -- there's people out there who have been given HIV --
LORD ARCHER OF SANDWELL: The case you're talking about, is that going through the Court of Session?
MR KELLY: No, there is no Court of Session cases now, but she was basically advised to accept her ex gratia payment.
LORD ARCHER OF SANDWELL: Oh I see I thought that you meant that she had brought proceedings.
MR KELLY: No. She was advised again because of the state of her health and she should just take the ex gratia payment.
LORD ARCHER OF SANDWELL: I see. So you're waiting for the --
MR KELLY: Well she's had it now, but in terms of her life, her husband almost lost his business looking after her, and like all of us, we don't have any private pension. We can't get a pension. I've been living on benefits since I was diagnosed, and as I said in evidence earlier, financially, I don't have a lot of money. I can't plan ahead. In fact, Tuesday when I was coming down, I went to the Post Office to get my welfare benefits and it wasn't in, and they said it would take seven days, so I had to go and speak nicely to my mother.
LORD ARCHER OF SANDWELL: So life's become living from one week to the next?
MR KELLY: Yes, basically. Just living off of the benefits and the money we get from the Eileen Trust. It's quite hard to organise a holiday or whatever because of my health, and for my parents, like I said, two days before I had my last heart attack my parents were supposed to be going on holiday I was in hospital. I would like to find, as I said, in certain evidence I've submitted that I really do believe that what we're looking for is some sort of -- well, we want to know exactly why this is happening.
LORD ARCHER OF SANDWELL: You want the explanation?
MR KELLY: We want the explanation, we want an apology and we want some decent compensation for our lives. We only have one life, right?
LORD ARCHER OF SANDWELL: Sure.
MR KELLY: We're all living with the effects of this government policy, and as a good friend of mine, Paddy Joe Hill, from the Birmingham six said to me one day, he runs a campaign called "Miscarriage of justice" he said to me "you know, Gary, you have been given a life sentence without parole" and that's exactly it, in a nutshell.
LORD ARCHER OF SANDWELL: Any questions?
MS WILLETT: I don't have any.
LORD ARCHER OF SANDWELL: Thank you very much Mr Kelly. You have made it very clear.
MR KELLY: Thank you.
LORD ARCHER OF SANDWELL: Well do you think we can safely resume at one? Shall we adjourn now and resume at one?
(12.14 pm)
(The luncheon adjournment)