Selected Transcripts of the Archer Independent Inquiry
Wednesday, 18th April 2007
MRS SUE THREAKALL (called)
MRS THREAKALL: If it is okay, I have done the same as David, I have prepared a short statement. There will be plenty of gaps for questioning. It is just to keep me focused.
THE CHAIRMAN: We have read your statement.
MRS THREAKALL: No, it is a different one.
THE CHAIRMAN: All right, please give it us.
MRS THREAKALL: Okay. I should like to begin by saying that, whilst acknowledging Lord Morris's many years of hard work which have brought us to this point and thank him for it, I should not be here today. None of us should. Not the inquiry panel who are doing this unpaid, not the widows, certainly not those people sitting here today who are having to battle on a daily basis just to stay alive, and I say this for two reasons. The first reason is that this terrible tragedy should never have happened in the first place. It was wholly avoidable. Warnings were ignored, lessons were not learned and our community was lied to by the people it should have trusted the most. The second reason is that, given the gross incompetence and worse that happened in the first place, this should have been acknowledged by the Government of the time and dealt with honourably nearly a quarter of a century ago. The next bit is a little bit of background history about Bob's early days and early treatment history. I met him in the late 70s at the time when he had become divorced from his first wife. He had gained custody of his two sons which, as you know, was no mean feat in those days. He eventually moved from his own home back to live with his mother Hazel who helped look after the boys while he was at work. I had just left teacher training college and worked for a few weeks at a branch of the DSS where Bob was employed as an executive officer. My sister worked there too along with her future husband who was Bob's best friend. Bob was hard-working, he was very popular and it was the sheer determination shown first by his mother and then by Bob himself that enabled him to work in the first place. She battled; she had to battle, to get him an education. Mainstream schools would not touch him because of his haemophilia and he ended up at a local special school where he eventually became head boy. After school, because he left that school with no qualifications, no formal qualifications, so after school he studied in the evenings to gain enough ‘O’-levels in order to get a job. Until 1977 he had had a number of treatments for his haemophilia including, at one time, a derivative of snake venom but, by using cryoprecipitate which was invented in 1964, he was able to lead a relatively normal life. Yes, he had arthritis, yes, one of his knees was locked and his elbows did not flex properly but he had managed to get married, he had two sons, held down a job, he had loads of friends and a social life.
THE CHAIRMAN: Just interrupting you, I think I read that he
played table tennis?
MRS THREAKALL: He did. I have mentioned that actually, I think, in a while. He was quite an active man. Until sometime in 1977 when he was only 34 years old -- and I have only just found out, we are still finding out as we go along -- I have only just realised from David's statement that he too must have been one of the very earliest. He was given Factor VIII in the form of at that time an NHS product, I think it was Lister. In October that year he was taught to inject himself and put onto home treatment. I knew Bob quite well at that stage. He was not happy with it. Despite all the assurances from his consultants and as he once said to me: you do not know what is in it. I remember, I went round one day to his mum's house. He had a nasty elbow bleed, I think. I don’t know what we were doing, going off out somewhere, and I said: for goodness sake, just treat yourself. And he was very, very reluctant and when I said: why, that is when he said: ‘You don’t know what’s in it’, which, as we all know, is famous last words. Shortly after he said that in 1981, he suffered a bout of Hepatitis B. His hospital records say that he had an attack, of serum hepatitis which shows quite clearly they knew where he came from. The doctors and the Haemophilia Society continued to encourage the use of commercial concentrate since cryoprecipitate was not an option any more, simply because they were quite deliberately phasing it out. As a severe haemophiliac who had 0 per cent natural clotting factor, he had no option but to use the commercial products occasionally. In 1981 we married. Bob was 38, I was 28. We moved into a beautiful four-bedroom Victorian house. He was really good at DIY so he soon sorted it out and made it into a really comfortable home. Two years later in August 1983, our youngest son was born. I must add that my two stepsons from Bob's first marriage lived with us. In January 1985 his medical records state that he had had venopuncture for Hepatitis B virus and HTLV3, which, as we know, is the virus later known as HIV.
The notes also say that he had "been found positive for HTLV3" but they did not tell us. Again in March 85 his medical records say that he was positive to HTLV3, and they still did not tell us. Indeed, it was not until around the beginning of July of that year, six months later, that we were informed of the result. Throughout these six months we had been having unprotected sex and they knew this, because we wanted another child, yet they did not think to warn us. They did not think to say: actually, you've got something rather nasty and we know for a fact it can be passed on to your wife. They let us carry on. We have documentary evidence --
THE CHAIRMAN: Just interrupting you for a moment, was he aware that he had been tested?
MRS THREAKALL: He was aware that he had been tested because rumours were going around at that stage that there was something going through the haemophiliac community. He knew he had been tested. We have documentary evidence that proves that [a doctor] knew in October 1984 that HTLV 3
THE CHAIRMAN: For the moment, I think we had better not mention individuals because we do not have their comments.
MRS THREAKALL: Okay. …that a doctor from Manchester knew in October 1984 that HTLV3 could be transmitted by sexual contact. This was three months before Bob was tested and a whole nine months before we were informed of the result and, to put it more simply, it was nearly a whole year at which I was at completely unnecessary risk of contracting HIV. Fortunately I did not. I was one of the lucky ones. More recently, we found conclusive evidence that the haemophilia centre directors were aware of a possible risk to spouses in October 83, which was a whole year earlier still, and that was 21 months before we were told of Bob's status. So that is nearly two years at which I was put at unnecessary risk. Minutes from a meeting discussing a clinical follow-up of patients noted that: ‘Spouses of patients who receive Factor VIII will also be followed.’ They do not follow up people for no reason. They do not just think, oh well, it might be a good idea. They knew what they were looking for, they knew there was a risk. Note that this refers not to Bob's HIV status but merely to the tact that he had received Factor VIII. Why weren't we warned? As it was, I was lucky. Many other people were not, including a friend of mine whose -- three brother-in-laws died, one of whom was her husband. She died and her son was positive. All because they did not warn us when it was quite apparent that they knew. On 28th January, I received a letter from Bob's consultant, who I won't name but he was one of the two consultants at the Queen Elizabeth Hospital in Birmingham which stated: "The current advice from the Haemophilia Society is that the risk of death from bleeding for severe haemophiliacs outweighs the risk of using the present heat-treated Factor VIII. This would be my advice also." The fact that Bob had survived perfectly well without it until 1977 seems to have escaped them completely. He did not bleed to death when he fell over as a child or had teeth extracted.
THE CHAIRMAN: It seems, but we do not know at the moment, that the Haemophilia Society had suggested that, for the majority of cases or the classic case, there might be greater danger from bleeding than from administering it?
MRS THREAKALL: I am not entirely sure what they were suggesting, we would have to ask them that, but I would say that, since Bob was as severe as you could get, he had no natural clotting factor of his own and he still managed to survive all those years without Factor VIII speaks volumes. Having heard that from [the doctor], I wrote to him the following day -- sorry names -- and asked why, if there is even the slightest risk of the HIV virus still being in heat-treated Factor VIII, can Bob not be offered National Health products where the risk would presumably be less? The reason I asked this was I was concerned about any problems relating to being re-exposed to virus, multiple exposure, because we did not know and I do not think they did either. Maybe in retrospect they did not care because he had already been tested positive. As somebody has pointed out earlier on, from the Haemophilia Society, they did not particularly expect them to last long anyway so I think the problem was being brushed under the carpet. The consultant's reply eight days later says that it was, and I quote: "... very much a question of supply and demand, I am afraid, lack of supply." We now know that any perceived problems with lack of supply could have been completely eliminated if warnings
had been heeded --
THE CHAIRMAN: I do not quite follow that. You say that the problems from lack of supply could have been eliminated?
MRS THREAKALL: I am absolutely certain they could. If people had listened to Dr David Owen and if they had listened to the warnings which had started to filler out from America and they had listened to the warnings that were starting to go round in this country years before to try to make us self-sufficient in blood products, most of that problem could have been eliminated.
THE CHAIRMAN: I see what you are saying if we had been self-sufficient in blood products, of course this wouldn't -- yes, I follow that.
MRS THREAKALL: If the money had not been diverted to other causes, yes. Just to give you an idea of the sort of person he was, throughout our time together, as you pointed out, he lived life to the full. We had lovely holidays, all in this country. His first holiday abroad which was actually only Guernsey but it involved a boat trip so that counted as abroad to him was booked and paid for but he never made it. We took our son to places like Chester Zoo, Warwick Castle, Stratford, the Cotswolds, Wales, Devon, Cornwall, had a great time at the Centre for Alternative Technology; at the time we thought it was trendy. We went on cable cars, we hired boats and built sandcastles. These are all the sort of things that many thousands of people do because there was nothing particularly special about him. He was just an ordinary man, living an ordinary life. He was a great dad, partner, brilliant friend. He was good fun. He was practical, dependable, reliable and as honest and honourable as it was possible to be. You have to ask or rather comment on what a pity it was that those who were meant to be helping him and in whom he placed great trust, and I think that is the crux of the matter, the fact that they did not display any of the same qualities. Because the basic thing here is that these people here trusted their doctors. That is what you are supposed to do with doctors.
THE CHAIRMAN: To your knowledge, was he ever offered counselling?
MRS THREAKALL: When he was told that -- first informed about his positive test, he was told: we do not really know what it means, we suggest you use a sheath when you have intercourse. Don't have a baby for two or three years. You may be lucky, you may be inoculated against it because of the way you were given the virus in the first place. We then had to go and look for counselling and we ended up at the Oxford haemophilia centre because there was none in Birmingham. We certainly were not offered any from anywhere else. The original version of the Hippocratic Oath states: "I will never do harm to anyone." Even the modern version says: "I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure." Neither version, in my opinion, comes even close to addressing what can happen when doctors forget their responsibilities and their oath and they blunder blindly on with no respect for their patient's rights or for informed choice. The next thing I want to tell you about is what happened towards the end. From early in 1988, he became progressively poorly. He suffered repeated infections and became, quite frankly, very frightened. He was scared of becoming ill and scared of dying. On 25th August 1989, a letter from our consultant to our GP reports that Bob had been prescribed AZT 1,200 milligrams per day which was enough in my opinion to kill a horse. He was never the same again afterwards. Even then he made the best of things. He enjoyed his life and wanted to be there to see his children grow up. Sadly that was never to be and, on 20th February 1991, he died in the Queen Elizabeth Hospital, Birmingham, and he was 47 years old.
THE CHAIRMAN: Can you tell us a little about the effect on you, Mrs Threakall.
MRS THREAKALL: Me personally?
THE CHAIRMAN: Yes.
MRS THREAKALL: In my best friend's words, I cannot sum it up any better; she would sit here happily and tell you that for years after Bob died I was like a mad woman. I think I have described it --
THE CHAIRMAN: Were you looking after him, obviously you were –
MRS THREAKALL: I gave up work to look after him. I was a deputy head teacher at a local primary school.
THE CHAIRMAN: Were you able to resume work after his death?
MRS THREAKALL: I went backwards and forwards to it. If I look back retrospectively, I was in no state to handle a class of children. I used to be good at the job. Can I interrupt for moment, has anyone got a tissue? (Handed). It's all right, I'm not getting emotional. Thank you. I don't want to drip all over the ... Right, yes. I gave that up to look after him. My next stage career-wise, I suppose, would either have been a deputy head teacher of a large primary school or possibly head teacher of a small primary school and then move up from there. It was unfortunate, it was particularly bad timing, really, that at the time Bob became ill, the National Curriculum was coming in. So I did not get any of the in-service training. By the time I was functioning as a human being again, I was way behind. I am also getting too old and I am too expensive to employ, really.
THE CHAIRMAN: Yes.
MS WILLETTS: What about the effect on the children? You have not said an awful lot about that.
MRS THREAKALL: I have a statement from Bob's eldest son
which he would like you to hear. The effects have been quite catastrophic. The eldest one will speak for himself in a minute. The middle one, my youngest stepson, I had not heard from for about ten years until fairly recently. We are just about getting in touch again. He almost turned into a recluse. He lives in Brighton. He is married. He has a job. To all intents and purposes he is living a sort of stable ordinary life. You see, it did not help that, two years after Bob died, his mum died too. Basically again, I keep using these words, "in my opinion" but it only is, she could never come to terms with losing this son, her only son, who she had fought for. She kept him safe, she kept him well. Then, like, she trusted in the doctors to treat him properly and we all know what happened.
THE CHAIRMAN: You have told us about the effects on your employment. What sort of financial help have you had?
MRS THREAKALL: We had the original payment for HIV. Can I just say, people keep using the word "compensation". We have never been compensated. We have only had, and I will mention this again in a minute, a series of ex gratia payments. To achieve compensation, someone has to admit liability and even fairly recently – am I allowed to mention ministers' names if I cannot mention doctors? Well, the Health Secretary mentioned that this is "not a matter for this department". If it is not a matter for the Department of Health, what do we do, take it to Trade and Industry, Agriculture, I don't know?
THE CHAIRMAN: What I am actually asking you is what you personally have received. You have received some payment in respect of the HIV?
MRS THREAKALL: We received the equivalent to one and a half years of our combined salary.
THE CHAIRMAN: What about what the Skipton?
MRS THREAKALL: No, widows are not entitled to any payment from the Skipton Fund.
THE CHAIRMAN: Was that because he died before the Skipton Fund --
MRS THREAKALL: Yes, I think so. He sort of died at the wrong time.
THE CHAIRMAN: Yes, I see. We'll hear from --
MRS THREAKALL: Can I just tell you quickly about his final days?
THE CHAIRMAN: Yes.
MRS THREAKALL: His final days were like a horror story. Even they were littered with medical errors that resulted in a great deal of unnecessary pain and suffering. He died a really nasty death but his last words to me were: ‘Is everything sorted?’ He wanted to know that everything had been put in place to make sure that we, his family, would be okay on a practical level without him. I am afraid I lied to him and told him everything was fine. It was the only time in all the years I knew him that I did not tell him the truth but it couldn't go on like that. He was literally hanging on to make sure we would be okay. A few minutes later, literally, believing everything was all right, he died. I did say earlier that Bob was not special. Obviously that is not strictly accurate because he was very special to all of us. I look to this inquiry to provide a mechanism whereby Bob can have his wish, albeit 17 years late. I look to you to ensure that the very strongest recommendations are given to the Government to look after the bereaved, especially the children, and to make sure that those who are still alive can stop fighting this battle for truth and finally can, in Haydn Lewis’s words, "put it to bed". For some of us, the actual events happened a long time ago and in practical terms we have been able to move on with our lives and I think that is important to remember. But what has happened has been there in the background, sometimes coming through to the surface, every single day since, and the reason for this is that what happened has never been honestly addressed. It has never been properly dealt with. Even as I speak, people in this room are still struggling every minute of every day with the fall-out from what happened. We will only be able to move on and truly live our lives when we know the truth has come out and everything possible has been done to address this catastrophe. This inquiry also has to recognise that for many people the practicalities will only get worse as time goes on, regardless of what you achieve. You cannot bring back those who died but you can demand answers to questions and you can, with our help, reveal to the world the truth about what happened. I wondered about touching on this because it is a delicate issue but, although money is not the answer to all this, you can and you should address the matter of finances. Many people have lost jobs, pensions, insurance, good job prospects because of what happened. Many are living with great financial hardship as a complete direct result of this. Many are sufferingthe daily humiliation of begging for charity money whilst continuing to struggle with their health. You must make strong informed representation to Government about the haphazard ex gratia payments which have been afforded to us over the last 20 years, payments which have not fully addressed financial need and which in some ways have served only to divide our community. True financial compensation can only be offered when there is an admission of wrongdoing and we all look to you to make plain this wrongdoing.
THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, we take note of that.
MRS THREAKALL: I have one more sentence. It is said that women always like to have the final word and, as some of you here today know, I am usually no exception to this perfectly rule of nature. However, just for today, I am prepared to let a man finish off what I started, in fact, two men. The first is my stepson Paul, Bob's eldest son, who has written the following statement –
THE CHAIRMAN: I think we have that statement.
MRS THREAKALL: Yes, but I need them to hear it too, if that is okay:
"My name is Paul Threakall, the eldest son of Robert Threakall who died February 20th 91, aged only 47. "I never saw my dad as outside people did. Although disabled by haemophilia, he was a very active and involving person. He loved life and tried to make the most of what he had. He taught me DIY, chess, table-tennis, badminton and too many other things to mention here. He tried to teach me to fish and failed, much to his disappointment. But most of all, he was my dad.
"My parents must have decided when I was quite young to shield me and my brothers from some of the realities of my dad's haemophilia. We were all aware of his need to inject reconstituted Factor VIII and the fact that he was, as other people put it, disabled. But, as I recall, there was a definite change in the level of openness about it all during my very early teenage years. "Then in 1985 the world was turned upside down. My dad was diagnosed with HIV. I am pretty sure that my parents decided to be very selective in what truths they exposed the family to. This seems very odd in the age of internet openness but in the mid-80s it was probably very easy. "I distinctly remember being told not to touch any of my father's Factor VIII or injection equipment, his toothbrush, razor and to use different towels et cetera. At one point, there was confusion over the loo seat, whether to wipe it or not. It was all very confusing for a teenager but as always dad saw us through. "I left school with nine O-levels and two A-levels, mainly due to the support and help from dad and mum. I found a good job in an R&D laboratory [please do not ask me what one of those is] and left the family home around 1986/7. I visited the family home very frequently and always helped out whenever I could. "Then one day I was asked to repair the roof on the shed so I went round at the weekend and got up on the roof and started. I noticed my dad had sat down on the lawn. Ten minutes later he was still sitting down. I asked if he was all right. He looked up and asked me to help him stand up. I hadn't seen him fall over and he couldn't get up again. This was the point I knew something was very wrong with him. My dad was wasting away. "I cannot remember how long after that he died but I was there at his bedside when he did. My dad was only 47. No one should see anyone die like that. It was probably the single worst experience of my life to see my dad, 8 stones in weight in a hospital bed, dying from a terrible wasting disease he should never have contracted. "Not long after my dad died, the family slowly went to pieces especially David the youngest, now 23. He was severely affected and dad's death really drove him off the rails. He dropped out of school, failed his exams and now drinks to excess. Me and my mum help him as best we can. "I made some very poor decisions without my father's guidance and I am still suffering from them: a failed marriage leading to divorce and an estranged 10-year-old daughter 250 miles away whom I do not see nearly enough. "My grandma died two years after her son, my dad. She was never the same after she died and I still believe she died of a broken heart. "My mum grieved heavily and now tries to help everyone in the family as best she can, much to her own detriment. "My younger brother, now 35, has suffered greatly and almost become a recluse. "My auntie, dad's sister, was heartbroken and has also become very reclusive. There have been and still are times when I could do with his counsel and I think all of us would have made better life choices under his guidance. "My dad was the glue that held our family together. He was the Threakall family barometer and is sadly missed. How can you sum up a person's life or the effects of their death on other people in a few pages? You cannot."
(Pause while video is set up)
MRS THREAKALL: Can I explain, this is a series of short clips from the press work that we did in the 80s and early -- late 80s, most of it. They are in chronological order.
THE CHAIRMAN: For those who have not seen this, the website is at the bottom.
(DVD is played)
THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much, Mrs Threakall. May we retain this for the moment?
MRS THREAKALL: You can have it.
THE CHAIRMAN: I think we will now adjourn so everyone can get some lunch. May we resume at 1.30, please.
(12.33 pm)
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